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Re: He's dead, Jim!




Actually there WAS once a consultants list, initiated and kept by me. It
was on the old web site and people really used it (I got called about once
in two weeks from this and helped several companies get a foothold in
Linux, exactly of the type Ira wants to initiate).

Unfortunately the consultants page was lost in the new web design (Or I
didn't manage to find it) and despite several reminders from my side and
requests to put it back it never happened.

I don't want to accuse anybody about this, I confess I didn't push it too
strong either (for personal reasons - time), but it is an example that
shows that even things that people tried to start got depressed by
circumstances and unrelated events.

Ira, thanks for doing so much for the community and thank you for you
enthusiasm.

Sincerely,

Schlomo Schapiro

 ---
email: schlomo@schapiro.org
WWW:   http://www.schapiro.org

On Sat, 15 Jul 2000, Ira Abramov wrote:

> On Thu, 13 Jul 2000, Matan Ziv-Av wrote:
> 
> > Apparently, none of the events you initiated seemed useful to anyone.
> 
> a. they seemed to matter to some who did show up.
> b. nobody complained, objected or sugested or INITIATED anything
> else. if you can'tsay anything nice, you don't have to sling mud.
> 
> > > Our goals were to raise awareness in the Israeli market to Linux and
> > > advocate development of Hebrew Apps, and it seems we are almost half the
> 
> > You are riding on hot air for a single reason -there is no way for
> > linux to succeed in israel without hebrew support.
> 
> so I can't advocate to companies to write linux apps in Hebrew until
> there are linux apps in Hebrew? are you reading what you are writing?
> 
> > - A web browser that can show every hebrew page that IE can.
> 
> I understand Konqueror is on the way, not thanks to ANY ISRAELI or at
> least anyone from THIS list.
> 
> > - A mail user agent that can read hebrew as sent by popular windows
> > mailers (netscape, outlook).
> > - A hebrew word processor.
> 
> well, if you don't build a strong community, you don't build awareness,
> and without awareness, no one will try the OS, and if no one tries it,
> no one gets to like it, and if no one likes it, no one uses it, and if
> they don't use it, they don't demand hebrew apps, and if they don't
> demand the apps, then Kivun (z"l?), Dvir, Kalanit, Hashavshevet and all
> those companies won't WRITE them.
> 
> so you see, I tried to start that cycle. if you have better sugestions,
> then SHOOT. even if youdon't have time to realize the ideas, SOMEBODY
> ELSE MIGHT.
> 
> but do NOT belittle other people's work, at least not without showing
> something better/comparable that you might have done.
> 
> > - Much of the documentation translated.
> 
> that is done very slowly. all the LDP is free, and free in the meaning
> you can translate it too. it's already in Spanish, French German and
> Japanese in parts, only Israelis sit on their asses and wait for the
> Hebrew version to drop from the sky. translating is great as a learning
> process, but I don't need to learn most of the simpler how-tos that need
> translating not am I fast typist in Hebrew that can do this in his
> (nonexistant) spare time.
> 
> so again we're down to volunteers.
> 
> >
> > Until we have this, to whom are you trying to show linux? To companies
> > that need servers? That does not require volunteers giving away
> > CDs. That requires a consultant list.
> 
> good. I understand you are working hard on getting one updated?
> 
> 
> > > and me, and 10 people doesnot a LUG make. If Linux' success in Israel
> > > is important to you, do something,
> >
> > You miss the point - Don't assume that it means people don't care about
> > Linux success, when people merely don't think that you hold the key to
> > Linux success.
> 
> well, it seems like you are the first to complain about my past
> actions. As for me "holding the key", maybe you didn't read my post at
> all. I never thought or wanted to do it alone or lead it. I tried to
> create a snowball and have the group (or atleast 10-20 people) to lead
> the action. I am not quitting because people are NOT following me, I'm
> quitting because most of the time they are ONLY following me without
> initiating anything.
> 
> got that through your think skull now?
> 
> great. now fsck off and don't reply unless you have something SERIOUS to
> answer. and do it in private mail, and ONLY if it's serious. your post
> makes me think I have nothing more to expect not only from this group,
> but this list too.
> 
> --
> Ira Abramov, GNU/Linux advocate.
> (@-   
> //\   "Akamai, Google, MicroSoft, Sun, Oracle, Intel, NASA, Sony, 
> v_/_  Python, JPG, PNG - CS masturbation is changing the world."
>                         -- C.S. answering to Linus, 3/7/2000
> 
> 
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