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Re: Back from the dead [was: ISDN problems].
- To: Oded Arbel <odeda-linux-il(at-nospam)betalfa.org.il>
- Subject: Re: Back from the dead [was: ISDN problems].
- From: Eli Marmor <marmor(at-nospam)netmask.it>
- Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 19:24:01 +0300
- CC: Linux-IL Mailing list <linux-il(at-nospam)cs.huji.ac.il>
- Organization: Netmask (El-Mar) Internet Technologies
- References: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0103310353000.3385-100000@europa.betalfa.org.il> <3ACC7A13.68FC6066@elmar.co.il> <022d01c0bdfd$4bfdbe70$2900000a@oded>
- Sender: root(at-nospam)main.aquanet.co.il
- Sender: linux-il-bounce(at-nospam)cs.huji.ac.il
First of all, I want to appreciate your response. You explained why it's
shooting your leg, but nevertheless answered my question. Thanks!
Regarding your worries: Don't worry.
1. First, businesses, contrary to houses, don't use Internet to download
MP3/videos/etc., or to serve them, but only for lightweight things
like HTML and e-mails.
2. Second, we are VERY small, that many houses, especially with IP
masquerading and an internal LAN of 2-3 computers, are heavier than
us.
3. Third, we are not connected to your ISP currently, so he is not going
to lose any customer or income.
4. Forth, contrary to the common deal of $14.99 ADSL etc., in this case
the ISP is going to earn many extras: static IPs, both connections -
ADSL *AND* ISDN, etc. In total, I believe that the ISP is going to
make at least $200 monthly, and together with Bezeq's costs, about
$340 monthly, or $4000 per year (more than 20,000 NIS including VAT).
Nobody is going to suffer (except for me ;-).
5. Fifth, Israel has been always known for being a poor country (high
deficits etc.) with rich citizens. Now, with the falling NASDAQ and
crashes of start-ups, not only the country is poor, but also the
hi-tech companies. I agree that it is unfair to give the same prices
for businesses and individuals, but not because businesses should pay
more, but because of the opposite reason (before flaming, don't
forget that I'm a citizen too; And don't try to claim that Internet
became a need so it is impossible to demand, for example, more than
$70 for it. Housing is more critical for living, but renting a flat
costs about $500 per month).
Moreover, even if you disagree, my advice is to be clever rather than
fair ("al tihye zodek, heye hacham"): For example, the taxing of
companies/options/etc. wasn't lowered (in spite of the the famous tax
reform) "thanks" to social reasons. However, these social reasons just
achieved the opposite result, and companies started to escape from
Israel, so by insisting on 50% (and not 25%), the government remained
with 0%.
The analogy: The differentiation between businesses and individuals
caused heavy losses to the ISPs, and is one of the reason for their
losses. It's anomal, and invites companies to "bypass" it. You can't
charge more for less. A charge per MB, for example, or per bandwidth,
or per quality, makes more sense.
6. The "17%" issue is not relevant. If it was a reason for trying to pay
more for purchases, it would be also a reason for trying to earn
less (both lower the tax...). One of the most important rules for any
serious business, is to ignore such issues in purchasing/selling
decisions.
7. In any case (AFAIK) only Netvision has a "business offer" for 256Kbps
but nobody is going to pay $300 monthly for ISDN alone (and even
without the Beze'q costs). So "business offer" is not an option.
In any case, I'll keep your answer with me, and will not tell friends
about the deals.
Oded Arbel wrote:
> Ok, I'm probably shooting myself in the leg here :-) as when my ISP gets
> flooded with 256k connections someone there is bound to slap on a bandwidth
> limitation..
> So - a plead and a few words of caution.
>
> I think that Buisnesses should pay for connectivity like buisnesses, while
> users should get cheap connectivity - regardless of badnwidth. I just feel
> that that is the "Right Thing(tm)". if you'll pressure me, I might say
> something about a buisness getting tax reductions for connectivity fees
> while a home user doesn't - but I don't know any tax laws, so this may be a
> lame excuse :-)
> So I think that buisnesses shouldn't take advantage of cheap priceses
> offered for home users, and hence drive the cost up for all home users - a
> buisness with a LAN generate much more traffic on the same connection, then
> the average home user, and so drives costs higher for ISP for a "home user
> type" account. a reasonable ISP that want to stay alive can only respond by
> raising connectvity fees for all users, especially home users.
>
> So - please... if you're buying an internet pipe for your company - go with
> the buisness offers you get from ISPs - I know that most ISPs (if not all -
> haven't talked to all ISPs in Israel) will offer you a 256k ISDN with a
> router and will throw in extra stuff for free - static IPs, and things you
> don't need - like domain registeration and web hosting, for a reasonable
> cost.
> I believe that companies, even small ones, connecting on a 'home user' type
> accounts will be bad for home users on the long run, so please spare us.
> thanks
Thanks again,
--
Eli Marmor
marmor@netmask.it
CTO, Founder
Netmask (El-Mar) Internet Technologies Ltd.
__________________________________________________________
Tel.: +972-9-766-1020 8 Yad-Harutzim St.
Fax.: +972-9-766-1314 P.O.B. 7004
Mobile: +972-50-23-7338 Kfar-Saba 44641, Israel
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