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Re: Departing from linux-il list
On Tue, 27 Aug 1996, Rani Pinchuk wrote:
> In the last days more then 10 letters were around the subject of the
> behavior of Marc A. Volovic. Also I found out that there are members who
> approve of this behaviour. I had enough of it.
let's put it this way. Most Internet veterans hate AOL newbies, I've seen
it in the BBS world, where suddenly too many people could afford Modems
and the average age of sysops dropped from 23-27 to 15, which really
effected the style of mail and network management, and not only for the
best. Now I see people connecting to the internet without knowing what AT
commands are!
yes, it also pisses me whe I have kids that have connected to the Internet
a month ago call me up and ask me what they need to set up an ISP.
AN ISP! a BBS is not good enough anymore!
That's why I see posts on usenet supporting infanticide (raise the average
age of the Internet users back above the 20 YO line), and AOL flames are
balanced by other hillarious posts of "the diary of an AOL user" and the
like. Marc uses humor, not too funny to some when they don't know him, but
trust me, the majority treats it as humor.
Now: why flame? because people don't RTFM, they mostly don't even RTFF
when they join the list! We are all entitled to ignore such posts, but
then all the newbies will leave. We could also all throw RTFM at them,
which will start to bore at some point, so we let Marc "flame" them a
little. I do admit this one has blown somewhat out of proportions, but
Moshe did through some unfriendly flames back even when we tried to show
him it was all in good intentions.
The only reaon I help people with flamable questions out sometimes is when
I see kids that have to really fight the language of the docs, and that's
about the only time I really disagree with Marc. On the Other hand, the
law of the jungle says english non-speakers will have a hard time with
computers anyway, so they should make an effort, and not only to please
Marc, but to be able to move on to more interesting subjects and
questions.
> I am registered to other lists deal with Linux items. Never I saw such a
> behavior there. A new user of linux wrote a trivial question? - so he gets
> pointers to the documentations, and sometimes even the answer. What's
> wrong with that? (BTW - those are not moderated lists!).
which is indeed the case here most of the time.
> I think the objectives are to discuss about Linux items and to spread
> knowledge of this great operating system.
Linux is no OpSys for dummies, where the GatesMaster reigns, we hate dumb
questions for good reasons.
> I find it stupid and arogant to laugh in public about the ignorance of
> other people. Those people who ask so-called stupid questions might be a
> lot more clever in the future. I would like to help them or at least -
> not to stop them.
if they ask the right questions, and in the right way!
did you see the message that started all this? a guy poured in his entire
config, no logs, and just expected us to discover what his problem is (not
only the solution!) from the MIZBALAT HIRIYA he dumped here. no details on
his hardware, setup, observations and so far failed attempts, and I will
stress again, his highly accurate definition for the problem was something
like "it doesn't work"! Can we allow such posters in here?
> I feel that linux-il is actually a moderated list - no, no - there is no
> one who technically censors some letters - but I found that people don't
> like to send mail and be flamed afterwards.
good! self moderation is excellent!
>
> This is bad - I don't think there is a lot of members in that list who took
> very organised course in Linux. Even people who know a lot might learn from
> the "trivial" questions.
I never took such a course either, and I RTFM a little as possible because
I don't have the time, but I have installed /usr/doc/ for crying out loud!
> I was suprised to see that other members of Linux-il like tosee how
> people are flamed, and even were kind of proud of it in the Linux-il
> FAQ. So I decided to make a move and exit from this place. After two
> years of working with Linux, part of it as full time job, I still feel
> that I have a lot more to learn. And as a learner I'll not stay in a
> place were I'm not welcome.
did anyone tell you you were unwelcome or is this a misinterpretation of
Marc?
Personally, I am sad people leave lists because of other people. You can
go ahead and stick a mailfilter to throw Marc's messages down the bit
bucket, or try to quitely kill -1 this ordeal through personal Emails, but
you can't kill -9 Marc.
All this said and done, if you still feel like a logout is what you need,
go ahead.. when you'll start linux-il-no-marc@kinetica.co.il I'll join it
too, but I won't leave this one.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Ira Abramov <ira@scso.com> Scalable Solutions
SITE Web Presence ("webspace for rent") http://www.site.co.il
Beeper 48484 at 03-610-6666, 02-6294-666 FAX (972)2-643-0471
POBox 3600, Jerusalem 91035, Israel Tel (972)2-642-6822
http://www.scso.com/~ira Check out: http://www.linux.org.il
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