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Re: information <-- (corrections)



Hi!
I really don't have time for these arguments, and I really didn't
want to take part in this discussion, even that my name was
mentioned, but - hey, people, you force me!

I see incorrect facts in this list again and again, and don't
correct them (I don't want to spend time in explaining again and
again why these facts are not correct). In addition, since my
English is awful, it is hard for me to explain myself, and I spend
too much time for writing (Ira, you don't have to corrent also my
English :-).

Anyway, after many years of developing Hebrew support for X and
Motif (hey, I begin to feel as an old-man ;-), hundreds of times
of building X/Motif sources under more than 30 different UNIX
versions, very deep knowing of any bit in the ~10 MB sources of
libXm, tens of thousands NIS investment for sources of the Open
Group, and even a close working with the X Consortium Za"l (the
ex-Consortiun :-( ), including staying in their office near MIT,
I feel that I should correct some facts, especially when these
facts are exactly the opposite of the truth:

>                                                     however adding
> r-to-l support to X-Windows is not possible without significant changes
> and additions to X-Windows protocol.

Heh?
The protocol does not have ANYTHING to do with Hebrew support. I
didn't change anything in the protocol, as well as the other
Hebrew developers. Out of the 5 layers of X (server, protocol,
Xlib, Xt, and the GUI - such as Motif), the main changes are in
the GUI layer, but a little change is needed also in Xlib. In MY
case, the changes in Xlib are done without any need to replace the
original Xlib.

>                                      The whole thing is not feasible
> without the Open Group's consent to implement these changes

Exactly the opposite; The whole thing IS feasible (and even was
done, better than Microsoft did in its Windows), only WITHOUT the
Open Group's "help". The "Hebrew support" that the Open Group tried
to implement in Motif 2.1, made it almost impossible to port my
stuff to it (from the standard Motif's, i.e. 1.2.0-1.2.5).
On the other hand, this "Hebrew Support" itself is not usable,
becuase when you try to turn it on:

1. It crashes again and again, once per 2-3 minutes.
2. Between crashes, it does not do anything in Hebrew.
3. Even when you succeed to cause it to do some Hebrew, it behaves
   very strangely (letters override parts of other letters,
   everything looks very strange, etc.).
To summarize: "Thanks" to The Open Group "help", 2.1 will not
support Hebrew, neither through my stuff, nor through their stuff.

>                                                             and I do not 
> see them doing so considering the user base of Hebrew speaking 
> individuals.

Unfortunately, the truth is again the opposite: They did it...
But don't be disappointed: 2.1 does not have any chance to catch,
exactly as its former (2.0). When 2.0 was launched (3-4 years
ago), everybody asked me about it, and I answered them that my hand
would have hair on it before 2.0 will catch. Then, 1.5 years ago I
was asked again regarding to 2.1, and I had the same answer. Now,
the vendors are going to bundle 2.1 with their new OS's (in
ADDITION to 1.2.5), but the applications will continue to base on
1.2.*. Currently, there are thousadns of 1.2.* based applications,
and only some dozens of 2.0 and 2.1 (together!) based applications.
This situation is not going to change dramatically.

Nachum: I really appreciate your (i.e. PF1's) willingness to help
the open source world. But please don't talk about things that you
are not familiar to, at least not in a so public forum like this
list (there are hundreds of subscribers of Linux-IL). I am sure
that you have many other areas of expertize. And please ask Uriel
Ben-David what he has against "very brilliant people from Kfar-Saba
who develop Hebrew support for Netscape" (HIS words in an interview
to Captain Internet of this week); "Hat'amot, quality assurance,
Bdika SheZe Oved Im Fontim, Bugim, Localizazia Achrait" - things
that he didn't even start to learn, I am going to forget  ;-)
(and thank him for the compliment about being "very brilliant"; I
don't think I deserve it; Instead, I prefer a more serious and
professional respect).

P.S.  Chevre', I don't want to bother the whole list in our stupid
arguments. If you have something to note or to ask, I prefer to
receive a phone call from you, through my 050-237338 (if you don't
like the 050 numbers, you may try 09-766-10-20. But that's the same
line...). And then we can even talk in Hebrew (though I also love
Hebrew e-mails...).
-- 
Eli Marmor