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Re: OFF TOPIC : ISDN.NET and Linux.
Before answering the question, I'd ask you not to begin a
flaming war, it is really off topic!
Stanislav Malyshev a.k.a Frodo wrote:
> AF> hmmm, I believe they are losing money anyway. 34$ for a 64k isdn line.
> AF> that's suicide in Israel int'l line costs.
>
> Well, if they are doing it, they expect to have something from it. I don't
> think that isdn.net is a charity fund. Anyway, no one knows a real cost
^^^^^^^
> (not what NV says to you) of a line in Israel. At least, I don't. Do you?
I do:
1. Cost of international lines is about $55,000 per T1. Since
ISDN.NET obligates for at least 7.5Kb (Kilobits, not KB) per
customer (http://www.isdn.net.il/revolution/element4.htm),
it means: 55000*7.5/1536/10= $27 (I know, satellite lines are
cheaper, but ISDN.NET uses Optical lines). Plus payments for
foreign ISPs: $3 per customer. Total: $30
2. POPs around Israel, many lines+modems, leased lines between
the POPs, rent for sites, a leased line to IIX + IIX charge,
etc.: about $10 per customer.
3. Equipment, routers, servers, etc.: about $10 per customer.
4. Offices: about $5 per customer.
5. Salaries: only $10 per customer (including management, system
administrators, administration, BASIC support, NOT including
EXTRA support which is charged by ISDN.NET separately).
6. Advertizing, marketing, etc.: about $3 per customer.
7. Billing costs: about $2 per customer.
8. One time gifts (ISDN line, a modem, first time installation,
etc.): about $8 per customer (after dividing by 24 months).
Total: $78. A real charity ("Chessed Shell Emet" :-)
And the prices ($32-$35 per 64K, $42-$45 per 128K, all for
unlimited use, i.e. flat rate) are similar to other ISPs (e.g.
Internet-Gold).
Now 2 questions:
1. Why?
2. Where do the finances come from?
1. Why: The costs of international lines will be cut. To be more
specific: Sometimes in the near future (a year from now?), the
costs will be 1/10 (one tenth!) of the current. The ISPs will
start to make money. But only those which will survive. So
everybody wants to be the biggest and to "catch" as more
customers as possible. That's (BTW) the reason why you must
obligate for 24 months in most of the deals. And don't forget
that Bezeq pays the ISPs for each new ISDN customer.
2. Where is the money from (I know, Koor, Globes, Telrad, but
these are not charity institutes, as well): As we saw, the costs
per customer are about $80, and the income from him are $32-$45.
The costs per frame-relay customers are similar (though you
don't have to maintain POPs, ISDN lines, modems, lines between
the POPs, one time gifts, etc.). To be more specific: Frame-relay
customer costs for the ISP (64K, maximal CIR - as in ISDN, no
limits): $65. Since the ISPs limit their frame-relay customrs
(8% or 15%, low CIRs, etc.), the real costs are even lower: $60.
If you want a higher CIR or a higher limit, you must pay much
money. Contrary to this low costs, frame-relay customers pay
about ten times the prices of ISDN customers (!). BTW: ISDN.NET
cut the prices of frame-relay, but till beginning of 1998, even
ISDN.NET charged frame-relay customers about $400 for minimal
lines (of course, 128K, with high CIR, and no limits, may exceed
$1000 at some ISPs!).
In other words, there is a cross subsidy. So if anybody wants to
make money, open a new ISP, with no private customers (dial-up/ISDN
etc.) but only frame-relay and leased lines. Charge them lower than
the other ISPs. And take the money to your pockets, instead of to
subsidize the loosing prices of the private customers. And save some
IPs for me, I'll be your customer (instead of being the "Para
Cholevet" of other ISPs).
Conclusion #2: If you are a private customer, DO NOT WAIT! The deals
for ISDN customers are VERY attractive!
BTW: Don't tell me that ISDN users pay Bezeq per each Peima; Frame-
relay users pay Bezeq as well, and much money!
P.S. I am a frame-relay customer :-(
--
Eli Marmor