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Re: OFF TOPIC : ISDN.NET and Linux.
Hi Hetz!
Firstly, I asked you not to start a flaming war. Since I didn't
write anything bad regarding to ISDN NET, I don't know why somebody
should try to "defend" them. I wrote that the frame-relay customers
are "Para Cholevet", but also that this is true in other ISPs more
than in ISDN NET. Moreover, I am in the middle of a negotiation
to move to ISDN NET. Did you really understand that I tried to
criticize ISDN NET? The guy asked what are the real costs, and I
answered him. I think that if the people will know how much high
are the costs of the ISPs, they will be easier with the ISPs, and
the ISPs will benefit from this situation. So please, if you want
to help ISDN NET, don't prevent me from helping you!
> > 1. Cost of international lines is about $55,000 per T1. Since
> > ISDN.NET obligates for at least 7.5Kb (Kilobits, not KB) per
> > customer (http://www.isdn.net.il/revolution/element4.htm),
> > it means: 55000*7.5/1536/10= $27 (I know, satellite lines are
> > cheaper, but ISDN.NET uses Optical lines). Plus payments for
> > foreign ISPs: $3 per customer. Total: $30
>
> NO NO NO! KILOBYTE! (64Kbits=8 KILOBYTES)!
You can write even 10 times "NO", but I recommend you to visit the
page I mentioned. (7.5 Kilobits = 960 bytes. It is still much!).
Since some of the time your line is idle, the rest - you access
your ISP and/or IIX and/or proxy, 7.5 Kilobits means that your own
ISDN line will be the only bottleneck, and that there is a high
chance to have the full 128K (again, Kilobits) in international
connections.
By claiming that "7.5" means Kilobytes, you claim that the costs of
the international lines of ISDN NET per customer (per month) are
8 times the number I mentioned, i.e. $240 instead of $30. Do you
hear yourself ???
> Eli, I think your calculations is WAY wrong. Who says that we need to
> pay per customer.
I really don't think so. But ISDN NET think so (that a specific
bandwidth must be kept per customer). Please read your page, the
one I mentioned above. ISDN NET obligates to keep 7.5Kilobits per
customer. And if you don't believe, ask Doron (<doron@isoc.org.il>)
to tell you the difference between Kb and KB, and what ISDN NET
means in that page. Or try to find who wrote this page in ISDN NET.
I am sure he will explain that it means Kb and not KB. Or just
count the "Yud". There is only one Yud (as in Kilobits), and not 2
(as in Kilobytes).
> Again, you're thinking in ANALOG terms. Who the fuck needs modems? what
> for? have you
> heard about PRI?
Still, PRI costs much more than a stupid $50 modem. And in order to
have really many lines, you must pay much for PRI and for Bezeq.
> Again, Koor is another owner of our ISP, so don't you think we get
> equipment REALLY cheap?
> (clue - MUCH MUCH less then you think in ANY term - and I won't give
> prices)
I know, and you could know (that I know) if you read all my message
before answering/flaming. I even mentioned Koor in my previous
message. And I know prices. Telrad is even a direct customer of me.
And this is the reason why I put a small cost on this point, and
not a higher one.
> > Total: $78. A real charity ("Chessed Shell Emet" :-)
> > And the prices ($32-$35 per 64K, $42-$45 per 128K, all for
> > unlimited use, i.e. flat rate) are similar to other ISPs (e.g.
> > Internet-Gold).
>
> you compare us to Internet Gold??? I'm willing to give you something to
> try:
Did I try to compare you? Don't put in my mouth words that I didn't
write! I said that the prices are similar (actually, the prices are
THE SAME). And I know that the lines of ISDN NET are better (did I
write anything else ???). Otherwise, I wouldn't consider moving to
ISDN NET. (You shouldn't use this forum to credit your employer).
> One thing I can tell you - Maybe our support team are not the best
Did I write it?
> We expand/add bandwidth much faster than ANY ISP in Israel.
Did I write another thing? What do you want from me? Or you just
use the opportunity to credit your employer? So please do it in
response to messages about kernels, about Linus Torvalds, or another
issues. I didn't write anything about bad bandwidths. The opposite;
I know you have good lines, so what do you want from me ???
> > lines (of course, 128K, with high CIR, and no limits, may exceed
> > $1000 at some ISPs!).
>
> Again - You got this calculation WAY wrong. this calculation will suit
> Netvision and Internet Gold.
In short: yes. But I didn't want to mention names. Contrary to you,
I don't flame others. So I wrote "some ISPs". Does it mean that I am
"WAY wrong" ????????????
> > BTW: Don't tell me that ISDN users pay Bezeq per each Peima; Frame-
> > relay users pay Bezeq as well, and much money!
>
> Unfortunetly it's true. you pay 2 Peimot mon-e for 128K EVEN that you
> got the same 2 wires as before when
> you had an Analog line. Why? ask Bezeq.
Read again what I wrote: I wrote that frame relay customers pay much
to Bezeq. Why don't you answer my claims? Did I write that ISDN
customers don't have to pay? Besides, when you use a double line,
isn't it fair to pay twice? I don't love Bezeq, but I agree with
them in this point.
> Eli - if you were living in Holon, you could of join to Bezeq experiment
> with HDLC. this would DEFINETLY would
> save you your Frame relay costs...
What is the connection? I DO need a frame relay, with a class of
permanent IPs; Otherwise, I could use ISDN.
Hetz: I really don't want to flame personally, but it is very strange,
that after trying to defend the ISPs, and telling the public that their
real costs are very high, and especially ISDN NET (I wrote that the
bandwidth of ISDN NET per customer is higher than its competitors), an
employee of ISDN NET attacks me... He puts in my mouth words that I
didn't say, and rejects them (I reject them too). He repeats facts that
I already wrote, but he does it "against" me.
So next time, before flaming, PLEASSSSSSE:
1. Read my message before responding. Refer to what I wrote, and not
to what I didn't write, e.g. if I write "a=b", don't respond:
"No! a=b!".
2. Read the pages of your company before telling us what is written
there. Especially after I mention an exact URL.
3. If you flame PUBLICALLY, I must answer you publically. So if you
are not sure with the facts, DO IT PERSONALLY! I'll answer you
personally, I promise!
P.S.: Your strange message will not have any influence on my intention
to consider ISDN NET instead of my current ISP (which I don't have any
complaints against. I think Aquanet is very fair, especially in the
pricing). I STILL consider the moving.
--
Eli Marmor