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Re: Debian 2.0




On Tue, 25 Aug 1998, Liran Zvibel wrote:

> On Mon, 24 Aug 1998, Ira Abramov wrote:
> 
> > second mounting?). this will format the disk (no upgrade path) and install
>                                                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Of course there is an upgrade path! The Debian developers assume that if
> you want to upgrade a working machine you won't be needing to boot from a
> floppy!!! You don't even have to reboot the computer in order to upgrade
> in most of the cases. Upgrading is done by a special script, that is on
> the installation CD.

oops, forgot to mention (I wrote different parts of thi message alonfg the
installation, and didn't remember to go back and edit)

yes, I found the upgrade.sh on the CD, NOT because the install program
told me it was there, but by reading debian's site and browsing the CD our
of plain curiosity. I had Debian 1.3 installed (from an old LSL tri-linux)
and this is LSL's Official 2.0 CD: the upgrade fails looking for a library
deb file. I didn't want to fight it and I skipped to a full install.

> > and hard to get around, help screens pop up every 3-4 selection to notify
> > you of dependencies (OK! I understood the dependencies concept after the
> > first time, can we skip the help screen after the first two times?). I
> > prefer to know about dependencies AFTER I made all the selections...
> 
> I think that after getting used to it dselect is bearable, and I like the
> way it does dependencies! I think it is much better then the way RedHat
> does it (When I'm getting into a problem I want to know it now, not after
> finishing selecting all the packages...)

ok, how about we agree not to agree? you like dependency checking on all
the time and I want it to pop up at the end of the process. CAN WE HAVE A
SWITCH? no, we're locked into one paradigm.

> BTW: The Debian developers are aware of dselect not being that user
> friendly, so in version 2.1 you'll have a much better package management
> program.

I tried to install that apt thingy, can't remember why it didn't work,
I'll check again at home and tell you.

> I think that Debian Handles X much better than RedHat.
> First, it never installs things you don't ask it to. (It is obvious that
> in spite of the fact that dselect pops up a lot of help screens, this guy
> didn't bother to read them, or dselect's manual...).

the install recommended I don't drop into per-package mode and instead
install a pre-selected set. I did, only to find it installed ALL the X
servers (when I obviously need only one)

> Second, it seems that he didn't install the xbase package, so he didn't
> get all the scripts and the wrappers.

I had whatever the standard package for a "home multimedia machine"
offered. xbase was probably included (again, I'll check when I get home)

> Third: X runs beautifully for me. The Debian developers did an excellent
> job! One good example (that  even he mentioned), X is not a lined version
> of the server but a wrapper that handles all the things before calling the
> Xserver. That way the X server doesn't even have to be suidroot.

and FX86Setup is supposed to still work though, right? it didn't...

> Had he read the documentation, he'd have found out that all he had to do
> is change the line no-start-xdm in /etc/X11/config to start-xdm. That is
> all the work that should be done.

ahh, had HE read my message all the way you would have seen that I
specifically decided NOT to read any docs and see how intuitive it is, ,as
someone from SVLUG sugested to me off-list. XDM is started by init on most
distros I've seen, that's why I went to look in inittab first.

I don't mind doing all the configs myself, in fact I prefer it (even
though I guess Debian doesn't include a "control panel" anyway), but all I
was saying is that Debian has the habbit of rearanging the blind man's
furniture. now where is the braile version of that manual?

> I don't see any problem with the way Debian handles runlevels. In fact I
> think it is done better then RedHat does it. This guy knows RedHat and is
> not willing to learn new things.

I run RedHt, SuSE, SunOS, Solaris, AIX, Irix, DECunix, HPUX and lately
dropped our last Slackware and Sony NewsOS. change that: I don't run, I
administrate them. I see stupidities in commercial software and learn to
live with it, I can't forgive Open-Source projects, especially
distributions in the same way, because I expect a higher level of
usability (and it usually lives up to thos expectations)

> > finally, now that X starts and the various WMs automatically register the
> > installed apps in their menues (not ALL the apps, but the highest number
> > of them I've seen for a distro), but.. but.. but... why can't I choose to
> > switch to Afterstep? :-) I'll have edit my .xinitrc for that I guess...
> 
> Nope, there is an easier way. Just add the init. to AfterStep in the first
> line of /etc/X11/window-managers. An easier way, would be to install
> AfterStep and it asks you whether you want it to be the default wm.
> BTW: If he's afraid of editing config. files, why did he choose Linux in
> the first place?!?!?

I'm not afraid (hello! I'm here! could you stop talking to me in
third-body?), I just expect automation to work smoother in such a long
awated version of the distro. afterstep DID install itself and like many
others I told it not to be the default, yet I can choose the others from a
submenu, and not afterstep.

furthermore, it's evident that you are not a sysadmin. screwing with
/etc/X11/ and /user/X11/ files is no way to change personal prefs. that's
where .xinitrc comes in (I don't want everyone on my system to be driven
nuts by changes I made...)

> I think that Debian is a perfect choice for a server. I can write a lot
> more why I think that Debian is better then RedHat and give many examples
> (and examples where RedHat is better then Debian), but I'm tired now, 

post something when you wake up, I'd like to know more about this dist
from people with experiance (Marc?).

Thanks for listening, tune in again tommorow :)