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Re: server hardware
On Mon, 16 Nov 1998, Doron Shikmoni wrote:
> Peter,
>
> >You are ALWAYS allowed to do whatever it is that you need to do to improve
> >your property in any way that you see fit. If this implies reverse
> >engineering, don't tell anyone.
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Hmm. This does not imply "legal", now does it :-)
I was saying that jokingly. You might not know, but I am in the repair
business (not computers - or not only) so guess what I do all day
(and some (many) nights) long. After all, I have to understand the durn
thing before i can help it, no ?
> >Moreover, the legislation brought by that court is illegal in most
> >countries as far as I know, and some will fight it to the death, and I
> >mean it. If the makers of software wish it to remain uninspected then they
> >have to invest in cryptography etc and make it suitably unpenetrable for
> >anyone whom they want not to see its inner workings.
>
> My above reference was not to a court ruling. It was to a US legislation,
> by the House of Reps. HR2281. Much more serious and scaring than a court
> ruling.
imho a court can over-rule that if it violates some existing laws, unless
the existing laws are canceled first. I think that this thing violates the
right of ownership or freedom of access to information or such, and that's
in their Constitution if I am not wrong... I am sure that someone is going
to find the right formula soon.
> >> So much of "property ownership" :-(
> >
> >I want to see the day when you are forbidden to lift the hood on your
> >car's engine compartment because it contains 'trade secrets'. Don't be so
> >funny, you make me laugh.
>
> I'm glad this makes you laugh. I didn't laugh when I saw it though.
> Actually it's pretty frightening. Strictly legally read, it might mean
> that Intrusion Detection systems are illegal, as they "decypher"
> code that was not meant to be decyphered. Anti-Virus software does
> the same. You get my meaning. A whole new world of "crimes".
Yes yes. There is also the small usual problem: The guys who really do the
reverse engineering for the purpose of illegally duplicating a product
will never be stopped by this. They knew they were illegal before, and
took measures. They still are illegal, so they still take measures. For
them, nothing has changed as far as I can tell (from the many clones and
OEM products that pass my hands @ work).
> Note that you may have misunderstood my standpoint: I do *not* condone
> this. Au contraire - I believe that passing this bill at the house was
> a sad day for all of us.
I think it was a large joke on that House and that time will prove that
they just passed another prohibition law. You don't just legislate over 5
billion more or less intelligent human beings, even if you are the House
of the US of A.
> >Big bodies of clueless bureaucrats who elaborate laws and standards have
> >been known to shoot themselves in the foot before, so this one is tiny.
>
> No it is not. This is heavy stuff. More countries now plan to follow suit.
It's about as heavy as the lobbies behind it. No engineer or consultant or
scientist in his right mind would suggest or support such a law. Just
think of the history of Unix in educational circles in this context and
look what happened. Since we're at Linux.
> >Just to drive a point home: The law you mentioned would make it illegal
> >for an American government agency to reverse engineer or examine for
> >example Russian software of whatsoever kind, including captured military
> >stuff, in their own country. The crypto export stuff is bad enough as it
> >is, and now they had to add this. I am ROFL.
>
> Government agencies are always exempt, don't you know.
Yes, the Feds have to do their work under cover lest they need a vaiwer
from a judge to do it openly (and the paperwork can be traced by everyone
later etc). I want to see the face of a person buying a bus analyzer
(device sometimes used to crack dongles, or so I read) after this, and
pretending he is not a Fed. These things would turn certain parts of their
society upside down so fast, you don't want to know. You'd need a BIG big
Brother to keep this going for any amount of time. About as big as he was
in Russia and other places. And look what happened there...
It can certainly make for some hard times for some people, but I have no
doubt about whether it will last or not. It won't. Even if it will take 79
years like it took elsewhere.
> >It would also make all Y2K mods required by software whose source is not
> >available illegal. I could think of about 2000 other oopses related to
> >this but I don't have the time.
>
> Yes it probably would. Plus many other things. It's a Bad US law.
> We should do our best to make our local legislators smarter (yes, yes...).
You still got hope ? How long you been here ? Me, 8 years, and I gave up a
long time ago ;(
> We may be far off topic here...
We are. C u in the Shabak cellars tonite (as clients) ;),
Peter